hi hi ♪(whistling tune) ♪("don't worry be happy") the president and speaker have taken no concrete steps to resolve the so-called fiscal cliff. president obama remains insistent th republicans yields to his ultimatum that he be allowed to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year. republicans for their part

insist that the president gets serious about cutting spending in order to reduce trillion dollar deficits and a national debt that is now mind-boggling league not -- monotonous. house minority leader disagrees vehemently with the speaker on how to reduce deficits and debt. today she offered a paradoxical statement on fiscal policy that would make both casey stiegel and yogi berra proud. the nation now just 24 days away from $600 billion of spending cuts and tax increases that will automatically kicked in. and pelosi has some wise words for washington. please listen terror. >> this is a moment of truth. the clock is ticking. christmas is coming. the goose is getng fat. in many homes across america it is very, very lean times. you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. lou: tha's right. pelosi says we cannot get our way to deficit reduction.

listen to the top democrat in the house of representatives, the former speaker of the house unveiling -- on dealing with the fiscal crisis one more time. >> in many hes across america ad is a very, very lean tim. you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. lou: today said minority leader appeared to be trying to outperform policy and the political rhetor of the absurd . senator reid's reason to be wary of reducing spending. >> the european community now is concerned about all the austerity. there are many, many things you can do to reduce debt but still have a stimulus aspect of the economy. >> that -- lou: the senate's top democrat believes we should return to europe for inspiration and guidance for fiscal policy, taking greece, perhaps, as a

standard for dealing with economic and budget crises. the speaker did a charge the president is slow walking the nation to the brink of a fiscal cliff. that is one of the speakers firmest in the strongest statements yet. >> this is in a progress report because there is no progress to report. the white house has wasted another week. there are a lot of things that are possible to put the revenue on the table, but none of it is going to be possible. the president insists on his position. insists on my way or the highway. lou: inconveniently the congressional budget office today reported that the federal deficit is already bulging. the cbo report for the first two months of fiscal 2013 that number $2,902,000,000,000, $57 billion more than the same two month time span last year. and the labor department today reported the unemployment rate fell to the 77%. good news, the lowest jobless

rate in four years. the lower unemployment rate, however, the consequence of the more than 300,000 people who dropped out of the work force altogether just last month. when counting the underemployed and those who have given up their search for work, the real unemployment rate amounts t a 14th 4%. my next guest says the obama adnistration is punishing job producers and subsidizing a withdrawal from the work fforce. joining us nw, one of the country's most thoughtful, provocative political and economic thinkers, author george gilder who wrote the best seller, wealth and pverty, and a seminal work in it is great to have you with us. some people upon closer inspection, it is not good news and peoplare leaving the work force. >> it sure isn't. were paying people to leave the workforce. some $1 trillion offpayments of

various kinds to keep people fromworking and to break up their families and to deoralize their earnest. it is -- it ignores the elephant in the room which is a massive departure of the prime age man from the work force. it is accelerating today. and partof his is being subsidized by the government through record disability payments. lou: disability payments from social security administration, taking that a side when one looks at food stamps and medicaid alone, you can add other incentives as well and support programs,but we ae looking at the prospect of having one in the quarter works for every one person on welfare and working the government. we are reaching a dangerous, dangerous to pinpoint this country, and we have nancy pelosi, the minority leader

saying that you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. mind-boggling. >> it is mind-boggling. after the second world war we cut our government spending by 60 p percent. the economy boomed. we cut ourselves all the way into a bigsurplus. israel was in a catastrophic crisis in the mid 80s. it cut its way drastically to a surplus. lou: this country has a long history. >> and new zealand. lou: this country, we can b parochiaallotted for a moment, we can learn from our own experience. it is pretty clear that when we talk about, as this administration has, returning to a clintonnera tax rates, it would be a wonderful boon if we wereo be able to also return to the balanced budgets of the clinton years, if we could return to the trillion dollar peace dividend that the bush yearleft on th doorstep of the clinton years.

but none of that is ever examined. also, we also are the beneficiaries of a massive technology bubble and the markets. >> plants and reduced the capital gains tax by 30 percent. he increased the income tax by 10%, but the huge surge in revenues under clinton came through the capital gains tax cut, not from the income-tax increase. lou: you and i have done what the republicans, perhaps too often. we talk about the economics of it, the theory of it, if you will, the extraction of it, but but the reality is the republican party has not come up with a rejoinder, a response to a, if you will, a socialist redistributionist president who right now claims the field is on

because there is no other standard flying over that field. there is a speaker of the house to is simply saying, this is not right. you know, we are not at the table and complaining, but not, not engaging. >> i think we have got to engage the argument. we cannot win the argument while acknowledging that an incrse in tax rates would increase revenues and all. it will just today the top 1 percent are paying about 40 percent of the income tax. the top 25 percent are paying 87% of the income tax. it does not get any better than that. this is under the bush tax rates. you eliminate those tax rates and you will get less revenues, more capitol flight from the united states. we have the first net capital flight in decades. more departure of high-tech immigrants from the united

states returning home to china. lou: democrats to feed the stamp act, science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. immigrants into this country who deserve it and to we desperately want to have your while we throw open our borders and our airports to people who are, for the most part, the majority of those illegal immigrants are not even high-school educated, lacks skills, like education. my god. and they do so rejecting that law, that bill and prevent it from becoming law because they want to have a lottery. for crying out loud the absurdities compound themselves. >> in general we havto recognize that the invidual entrepreneur with special skills and contributions to american produce all the jobs, and they are the ones who are getting rich, who are punished by any increase in marginal t rates. the already rich --

lou: what about the young man or woman in thiscountry who is not an entrepreneur, is not a big shot, is not in middle management in a big corporation. they won a break. they won an opportunity. they want to live the american dream. why can't the republicans talk to them? >> i hink that they are being talked to a great speech the other day in which he specifically addressed this aspiration, widespread among all americans to rise up. this is wha supply-side economics is. it is surge of economics. it is not trickle-down as some people caricatured. lou: you have heard that expression for 30 years. >> i never said it. lou: i'm amazed to hear the phrase escape ... t you mention one senator, and a very good one. probably one of the very bet in the republican communicators. why isn't a party organized around that very idea and tat

message and have a coherent campaign for the arts and minds of those who have the most benefit? >> they get assilated by washington. the washington culture is than talking the language of big government, and it is a deadly, demoralizing language. echoes the demoralization of the media and the -- lou: let's raise some hell, george. let's raise some hell and get some people focused on the right things here. always great to talk to you. >> thank you. lou: george gilder. much more on the fiscal cliff and the republican messaging, if you can call it that, perhaps tonight's broadcast. he egyptians revolting against the brotherhood. syria apparently mixing chemical weapons. the foundation for defense of democracy joins us here in moments. the unemployment rate drops. so did the number of workers in

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♪ lou: house speaker boehner says the president is slow walking our economy to the fiscal cliff. former reagan white house counsel, finanal crisis inquiry commission member peter wallace will join me here in just moments. let's take a look at tonight's "moneyline." the dow and s&p managing gains. the nasdaq weighed down by another bad day for apple and its investors. the dow up points. s&p up four, the nasdaq fell leaven. just over 3 billion shares

traded othe big board today. the dow up 1%, s&p slightly higher making three straight weeks of wins. the nasdaq down 1% for its first losingweek of the past three. apple investors are having a rough time with the dow down. the stock down 9 percent this we. but even with that selling, the stock remains up 30% year-to-date. wall street analysts say much of the selling can be explained by investors looking to avoid possibly having to pay gains on the sale of that stock at a higher rate next year. others simply taking profits. financial stocks strong. today j.p. morgan chase led the weight. news that it is expanding the numbers of its branch offices. research shows consumers have to walk into an office to do there banking. he knew that? bank of america also highr. two separate reports showed two very different aspects of consumer behavior. consumer debt soaring

$14 billion. the third straight month of gains. and the latest reading on consumer confidence shows confidence declining. phar-mor sharply than had been expected by most economists. my next guest is concerned that we are going over the fiscal cliff. he says, presidnt obama seemingly is intent on pressing his post-election advantage to win tax increases on the wealthy and to eliminate the houses debt ceiling leveraged. joining us now from wshington d.c., peter wallace, former reagan white house counsel, former member of the financial crisis inquiry commission. a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. good to have you here. you believe they're going over the cliff. >> i think their is a real dang of this. one can see a path for obaaa that does not look so terrible ife do go over the cliff. all of the taxes go up, but t democrats have an opportunity to introduce legislation to reduce

the taxes for 98 percent of the people leaving the wealthier people, i guess you could call them wealthy, the top two percentage to stay at the high rates. it is possible to do this. lou: it is possible, but i have to ask you, surely the republicans have to understand and had to understand six months ago what what transpired in this lame duck session of congress? what this president would press forward to. the fiscal cliff, the result of sequestration and agreements between the two parties, capitol hill and the white house. why would they not have thought out a position here? >> you know, one of the things that puzzles me about this is, even today the debate that the republicans are engaged in is really a debate with themselves. the media talks about the tax increases. th is almost all the talk about. and the only thing that makes sense to the republicans isto try to get some serious control

over the entitlements. that is why they're in this game. and yet you hear very little from the republicans. you would think that the speaker would get out and say, look, we are ready to talk about -- we are ready to talk about new revenue, but i am not going o even get into that issue unil the president moves his party. we know what the problem is. the democrats don't want to talk an entitlement reductions in all. the republicans don't want to talk about taxes. but the real issues facing this country, controlling spending, not raising taxes. lou: not according to nancy pelosi. i don't know if you saw. we reported up the top. >> i didn't. lou: the minority leader actually said, you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. i mean, this is the kind of mentality that speaker boehner must confront and deal with. one would think that would be a winner for him, but apparently

not. >> i'm saying i am puzzled by the fact that he does not emphasize that much more andd3 really say, i'm not going to talk but taxes. taxes is not on the table until the president come forward with the plan on entitlements. lou: you are a formidable negotiator in your own right, experience, and i just want to ask you. whwould anyone who is the leader of the republican party, frankly in a postion, not insist upon dealing with the president who has the superior power, the superior position and advantage, not insist that any negotiation be at a specific table with specific parameters and in the -- end this nonsense that is at the periphery in permeate -- permeating the media >> that's right. well, the president, and this is one of the reasons why the president may take us over the cliff. because i think he believes that he can get everything he wants by taking it right tothe end

and, perhaps, over the edge. he has the big megaphone of the presidency. you can see what happs when he does anything. it's covered in the newspapers and on television. he is getting his point across, and heis keeping -- he is keeping the conversation about tax increases and whether the republicans, relatively minor tax increases, and keeping the conversation away from the major question which is how we control the out of control entitlement spending. it is an unbelievable situation for republicans, and i cannot understand why we aren't. lou: on this broadcast we never talk about the fiscal cliff without referring to the incipient cause, there rid of it all, and that is why i believe it is entirely appropriate told the president accountable for the fiscal cliff because this is the only bullish and work here. it is this president who has decided to issue an ultitum. first on taxes and being raised

on only 2 percent of the people. secondly, insisting that the bt ceiling issue be compounded with it all. this is without question an ultimatum, the consequences are his. what do you think? >> well, i am afraid that even though the consequences are his, the consequences for the economy will be his. i think he is betting, i think there is pretty god evidence right now that he is betting that he can win this argument because the media and his megaphone enable him t persuade the american people that the republicans will be the cause of the troubles that we will face if we go over the clf. lou: history is littered with examples of those to proceed and rationally so but came up against creative, energetic opposition that found a way to prevent.

it always agree -- great to talk with you. we appreciate you being here. thank you. lou: a lttle corporate money is t so bad. he could use that, and he apparently will. we will have that story and protesters stormed the presidential palace in egypt. the government in trouble to. how much? we don't know. can the president support help in? we take it a up with the foundati for defense of democracy here next. democracy here next. stay with us. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligatio. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, buding blocks for the whheart of your portfolio.p.

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♪ lou: breaking news. u.s. officials confirmed that the egyptian authorities have detained a man who has been described vaiously as, perhaps, an alleged ringleader of an egyptian terrorist network linked to the september 11th attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. the united states ambassador and three other aericans were killed. also tonight, egyptian president

urging national dialogue still, but moving forward with his referendum on an islamist back to constitution. the new york times bureau chief in cairo, david kirkpatrick insisting that the muslim brotherhood is not, and i do ," not violent by nature and have come over the last couple of decades, you off more and more into a moderate conservative but religious moderate regular old political force. well, joining us now is jonathan chancellor, former counter-terrorism analyst, current vice president of resech for the foundation for defense of democracy, and it is good to have you with us. your reaction to kirkpatrick's description. >> let me first say that the brotherhood, when it was founded did have a violent army, and that was one of the reasons why the egyptian government ended up railroading get out of the political system.

over time e brotherhood as vowed to be a nonviolent organizations over the last several decades. -- lou: i am going to beg you for something because we're really pushed for time. >> yes,. lou: if you will, was history and more in your judgment. >> sure. bottom line is that th brother is the cornerstone of every violent organization that we see up there today. and so it may not actually be fostering violence itself, but it has spawned of many violent factions. lou: and in egypt your expectations as to what the course, what course will we witness taken there? prevailing, aintaining his powers? what do you expect? >> it is hard to imagine being dislodged. he sacked all of the military that could have potentially overturn them. at this point we are hearing that the crowds are large. they see this as a zero sum

gain, and it really is going to come down to whether this secular opposition can mobilize and whether they have the tools to bring h down. it does not appear at this point that they do. lou: let's turn to syria. as you know, the secretary of state meeting with russian counterparts in ireland today saying the united states agrees with russia and backing mediation to resolve the civil war. is there movement there or is it simply the perception of a -- of vement? >> i don't buy it. the russians are jealously guarding the prt of tartus where they have a significant military and financial investment in syri they are a patron of syria. it is very unlikely of the russians are going to help dislodge this, and that is a shame, obviously, because the syrians are loading chemical weapons. we hear dangerous reports command of syria right now. lou: a we learn that the pen exiles, e of the exile leaders

returning to gaza today. well, not returning to, but going from which he had been banned for 45 years. your reaction? and an assessment of its significance. >> sure. the political leader. this is seen as a victory. i'm not sure why they let him back in. but currently celebrating his 205th anniversary, and they are also celebrating what they describe as a victory over the israelis despite the fact that the israelis really dominated the battlefield during that war in gaza two weeks ago. lou: it's great to have you with us. we thank you so much. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. lou: much more. we will take all of that up with the "a-team" here next. ♪ lou: 18 days until christmas, 24 days until the fiscal cliff. no talks on capitol hill, no talks at the white house. the president's ultimatum driving has off that cliff.

the "a-team" weighs in. michigan infamous documentarian, michael more is back, and he is angry, as always. if you plan to be part of his next movie, you had better be a union member. a low unemployment rateto a high number of unemployed. what is going on with this economy? and what happens next year? former cbodirector joins us next.

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♪ lou: joining us now, the former director of the congressional budg office, former commissioner of the financial crisis inquiry commission, how many shows can brag that we have had two members of the commission on the same night and, as well, president of the american action form. pretend you're. >> thanks. lou: fighting words in washington. the speaker today actually said

these words. the president has adopted a deliberate strategy to a slow walk our economy right to the edge of the fiscal cliff. are you emotionally moved? do you think the nation is galvanized? >> i don't knowifhe nation is galvanized in the but i will be honest to my nervous about this. i view the clippers a genuine economic threat and a recipe for recession. we heard the secretary of treasury said earlier this week that he was prepared to go over the cliff, which i found shocking as the top economic official in an administration. if that is the strategy,it is a very, very dangerous one. lou: it is clear, the speaker made a clear, he believes that is precisely what the president wants to do and will do. as you say, it is stunning to watch the principal economic financial figures in the obama administration be leading a political negotiation rather than, if you will, minding over an economy filled with 23 million people unemployed all

sorts of challenges at every corner from and he is now potician. it is stunning. i want to get your comments, if i made, on something that nancy pelosi said today, which reported at the top of this broadcast. you cannot cut your way to defit reduction. i am quoting her directly. let's try that again because you probably did not believe your years. you cannot get awa to deficit reduction. your reaction? >> i'm speech was, quite frankly. i mean, if that -- if she believes that to be true, then she believes he can grow your way out of problems and there is no growth rate that is going to match the 22% projected increase in insurance subsidies under obamacare. or she believes she can taxer way out, and there is no way our economy can bear to double the federal tax levels from 18% of gdp the 36. that is what it would take. so the reality is that the bulk of our problems during the spending, both in the near term

are we have a sequster and a longer-term where this is all about getting the entitlement programs under control. lou: getting the entitlement programs uner control seems like a disant and remote fantasy with a president who is willing -- i mean, he has issued an ultimatum. he will be the cause of goin over the fiscal cliff. i don't know what the republican leaders cannot hang onto that thought. they will be watching him, the reaction tothe ultimatum, he will be sending the country over the fical cliff over what will amount to 8% of -- replacement of 8 percent of the deficit for fiscal 2013. it is mindless. >> as i said, i am quite nervous about this. i listen to speaker boehner say the day after the election, revenue is on the table. the american people want to compromise and make washington work. he said it again and put out a specific offer. all we have heard from the

president is hard-line was no negotiation on the tax side and not one word about the entitlement reforms that wou have to match that for this plan to make any sense. and it is that absence of lead on the spending side and unwillingness to make compromises that will actually get deals done and have washington auction again that i think our marks against this lame-duck session. lou: you have projected, the action form has projected 10 million prospect of possibly 10 million people losing jobs, 10 percent unemployment. a 4% reduction in gdp if we go over that cliff. correct? >> that is absolutely right. i mean, this is a big tax increase. it's a big spending cut. more importantly, ifou look at the debt ceiling debate, we saw a sharp drop in consumer confidence and we saw that today in the december number. a sharp drop in consumer confidence, and you also will see a big financial market disruption. those ae genie's you cannot

stick back in the bottle and lead to drags in the mainstream economy. lou: always good to have you with us. thank you very much. >> thank you. lou: up next, former ambassador, former director of national intelligence joins us here. shadowbox other, a former pacic fleet commander also among our guests. please be with us next week. stay with us tonight. angry liberal and accused hypocrite michael more sticks his nose into the michigan right to work fight. can you imagine that? the "a-team" is next. ♪ ally bank. why they have a raise your rate cd. tonight our guest, thomas sargent. nobel laureate in economics, and e of the most cited economists in the world. professor sargent, can you tell me what cd rates will be in two years? no. if he can't, no one can. that's why ally has a raise your rate cd.

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♪ lou: mich., about to become the nation's 204th to right to work state next week. michigan's republican governor says he will sign the legislation after a final vote tuesday. coincidently, president obama will be traveling to a detroit auto plan monday. the trip announced wednesday as part of an effort to drum up

support for hiking taxes on the rich. you would think you'd have to campaign for that. the president also opposes what it -- right to work laws. maybe it is more than a coincidence that he will be in michigan. in the meantime, angryliberal michael moore's sounding off on the latest right to work developments in michigan. the filmmakr and a major meltdown on twitter writing he was enraged. he called on people to revolt. if you write, direct, added, shoot, or do sound for me and my next movie you will not work for menless you belong to the union. but the thing that surprised me there is, i thought you already had to be a union member to work on his movies. he may be hearing from a few unions themselves. george zimmerman, the man accused of killing a florida teenager martin is suing abc news coming the netwo tried to portray him as a racist inorder to boost ratigs. zimmerman took issue with other

network edited his 911 call on the night of the shooting in february. this is what the network aired. >> this guy looks like he is up to no good. he looks black. lou: wow. that's remarkable editing because this is what he actually said o the 911 operator. >> this guy looks like he is up to no good are on drugs or something. it's raining. walking around looking about. >> okay. white, black or hispanic? >> looks like. lou: it turns out to left quite a bit out of that dialogue, and they? the lawsuit seeks an undisclosed amount of damages. c denies any wrongdoing. they have not apologized. critics are slamming president obama and his inauguration committee for announcing they will accept corporate money to pay for three days of festivities in january. can't wait. a reversal from the president's policies just four years ago.

back then he banned corporate donations, limit individual contbutions to mere $50,000. of course, it tossed -- cost taxpayers quite a chunk. critics say the move gives the appearance the corporatedonors would get something in return for their money. it can be. up next, democrats applauding a deceptively lower unemployment rate as the fiscal clef years. the "a-team" is here next. we will be talking with them. right her next. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the mercedes-benz winter event is back, with the perfect vehicle that's just right for you, no matter which list you're on. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho, ho! [ male announcer ] lease a 2013 c250 for $349 a month

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♪ lou: joining me now, the "a-team", radio talk-show host, a pulitzer prize-winning journalist and fox is contributor. former rnc spokesperson and

columnist. good to have you all with this. let's start with this one because in the fiscal clef nancy pelosi today, and i just have harp on this, saying you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. i mean, as i said, i think yogi berra would be proud of that little paradox. >> nancy, you keeping in at. you keep thinking that. huntington butch cassidy and the sundance kid. butch cassidy, really both sides on this as we teeter toward going over the fiscal cliff. i'm like robert redford. and the sundance kid. i can swim. and the american public. you're going to take as always. you know what, it's amazing that they don't seem to give a damn. i mean, they're going on christmas break. the president in 21 days, golfing. a lawsuit, the indonesia, the island of hawaii.

and maxine d relaxing while we slid down the abyss. lou: it seems to me, sherry, as the republican cannot quite figure out how to say, this is the president's decision. it's his ultimatum, and it's his choice. why can't they say that? >> because there is no guarante that it will turn out well. there is a media that will try and blame republicans no maer what. plus boehner could go in and cut a deal but he did you lose his right flank on this. starting to think it's a better deal for the republicans to of vote present, let the president on this completely. lou: agree to raise taxes. >> now. his thing. mitch mcconnell tried to get the senate, harry reid to vote on the president's plan and harry reid said no. democrats are calling it a stunt. this is the president's plan we can raise taxes on rich and you don't have to cut spending and you can do all the things that he wants to do, and they don't want that to come to a vote. there might be something there.

i'm thinking that might maybe make himn it and let the chips fall where they make. elections have consequences. at that right now. lou: i think we all agree about consequences. certainly. your thoughts on this? does it look to you right now like we are going to avoid this fiscal cliff? the president, but the brilliant idea? it's interesting how he does is. he initiates an ultimatum and the goes passive aggressive on everyone and withdraws from the field. it's really a bizarre and intriguing strategy which obviously has completely confounded republican leaders. >> yes, and the polls show that the american people are proud and -- probably going to blend republicans now matter what happens. lou: slightly. >> therore i think that is what you're seeing with president obama's attitude here. lou: does irritate you to think that they are going to blame the republicans denied republicans are basically saying, you know, we are going to step back because you're going to blame us instead of coming up with an

answer, a rejoinder to the president's going after them. and they don't have a strategy. they don't have a message. they don't want anybody to think badly of them. >> he is back being a community organizer. getting in their face. that's right whether you like cannot. and then he steps back, as you said. and he sets it off, and the republicans to my who's going to handle this one. finally, the shot caller is boehner. the way he should get barack because he loves to smoke cigarettes and you know michele with those pythons will choke him. golf with me. put your ssice. sigrid's service agent. he has that chesterfield no filters, and we will negotiate this will smoke and a few paxson and a comeback. that's how they are negotiated. lou: and ashe said, we will come back and continue this negotiation in just moments. stay with us. stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] at scottrade,

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♪ lou: back with the a-team, and i want to turn, if i may, to george zimmerman suing nbc because of the outrageous job of editing, they did, in my opinion, outrageous, clearly, intentiona what do you think the chances of are prevailing? >> oh, damn good because nbc, says, oh, oh, the videographer, audio, video et, it's, you know, he just snipped it in the wrong place. they'll blame the engineer, the video and the audio editor opposed to blaming their politics over it. lou: you agree? >> i see settlements, big time settlements, and i would settle if i were nbc. lou: what do you think? did we need a deep peek into the interworkings of nbc news? >> well, you know, possibly.

yoin if he could win or lose, but it will not happen again at nbc or anywhere else after this. lou: i might want to get onthe other side of that bet. there's seriously committed ideological operators in a few places that might just, you know, humorous is a hard thing to constrain. the supreme court taking up the cases the defense of mairmings act, proposition eight, and there's a supreme court decision on gay marriage. >> let's go for it. most of those judges are married. if they determine that gays and lesbians should suff like the rest of us heterosexuals who should be married. i fell in love, marry them, and they kick me to the curb. you have a right to suffer too, across the nation. lou: on board with the

convention? >> well, i don't know, look, what this does is give social conservatives the fight they want, and the plat tomorrow -- platform they want to air this, and so, for them, they look at this as a good thing because it's a fht they wanted for some time. other people might not like it very much, but people who feel strongly on either side, both sides,ment this fight. -- want thi might. many in the middle rather we not deal with it. it will be interesting. lou: a lot of folks in the country who don'tant to deal with any issue of m kind, but this presents itself to the supreme court. your thoughts on it, judy? important enough inour judgment to see a quick decision by the court? >> well, apart from being the divorce lawyers full employment act, apart from there, i think the course could choose a narrow proceed interpretation. they maydecide just some things with respect to the california law. i'm not sure the court wants to

tale the issue because it is contrrversial right now. lou: is our shannon pointed out, taking on proposition 8 and the defense of marriage act. it looks like it might be a little broader than we might have expected. >> it could be, but they have narrowed a broad, potentially broad, decision before. you have two swing justices here. the chief justice and, you know, obviously, the other guy that everybody's watching, but i don't think you can predict this one. ad, a really well-respected legal scholars, thinks they would narrow it, and i suspect he's right. lou: going through a lot of trouble, creating controversy and hoopla for just a little thing. you know, it's the day of big issues and little results. >> you got to love it. when it comes to love and marriage, they have the urge to merge on the supreme court, merging them together. we love that.